Chord Substitution m9

[SLUG]

Does the same 'rule' apply to m9 as it does to a 9, in that can you subtitute a m7 with a m9 or m13?
The m9 is a nice chord, albeit, not used in Blues but a good chord to have in the kit bag. The sonic 'clash' between the 2 & 3b creates a really interesting tone like the 'rubbing' together tone of the #2 & 3 in a 7#9 chord.
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[molson]

SLUG you are a little too far up the theory road for me right now. I would still probably subscribe to the "if it sounds good play it" school of chord progressions.

tom
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[kdkoadd]

Technically, I think those are called extensions rather than chord substitutions - to my knowledge, you can always extend a chord as you're just filling it out so to speak - giving it some sophistication.
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[SLUG]

Thanks Mick. Bit like a playing a chordal riff by adding the 9 - 13 and back to the 7 in a one bar strum pattern.

Agree Tom, with the sounds good then it is approach but also gotta be careful playing with other people that you're aware of what won't work in certain situations too.

Its not what we know we know or what we know we dont know, its what we don't know we don't know that does the damage
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[cowanrayl]

This is a subject I've been spending a lot of time on lately since I'm trying to improve my Jazz rhythym playing skills.

One of the web sites that I find very helpful is justinguitar.com. I find his lessons and advice to be very down to earth. He has a short lesson on chord substitution and he passes along the advice of a famous teacher I believe it was that he learned from. You can substitute any chord for another in the same class, those classes being major, minor and dominant.
The major chords would be Maj, maj6, maj7, maj9, maj11 and maj13.
The same for the minors and the dominants.

Hower, there is one axiom that the instructor stressed and Justin passes it along on his web site: "If it sounds good, it is good, if it sounds sh#t, it is sh#t".

I don't know if you've been through Session 18 yet, but I think there's a real good example of this on page 95 of the lesson book.

In examples 4&5, Steve substitutes an F9 for an F7 chord to dress it up a little bit. To me, it sounds pretty good.
In example 6, Steve dresses it up even more substituting a Cm9 for the Cm7, a F13 for the F9 and some other changes. To me it all sounds pretty good.

But, go up to example 3 where Steve is showing the ii-V progression. Where he goes from Fmaj7 to Dm7 to G7 then Cmaj7 sounds pretty good, the typical ii-V progression. However, substitute a Dm9 for that Dm7. Now to my ear, it sounds like crap. I wouldn't use it.

I just don't know if you can come up with a good hard fast rule for that kind of thing. To me it just comes down to how does it sound.
Even as good as the progression in example 6 sounds, if everyone else in a group played the chords in example 5 and I played the progression in example 6 at the same time, is it going to sound right?

In either Session 18 or 19, Steve recommended a book called Creative Chord Substitution for Jazz Guitar. I purchased a copy and it explains everything you would ever want to know about chord substitution. It's quite a bit too advance for me right now. Some day I hope to be ready for it. For now, I'll just have to stick with Justin's approach. I think playing experience will be a great help there.
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[SLUG]

Thanks for the info, very helpful. I will visit Justins site to check that out.

I think it all comes down to what your hear and maybe the way we all hear something totally different. To me the m9 is a very different tonal sound than the m7.
I like the 9 chords but, other than the 7#9, I dont 'hear' them as 'Bluesey' as the Dom7.
I like to alter the way I play the 5th string root 9 chord by adding the 5th on the high E sometimes to add that bright tone, or that considered adding the 12th?

I have no experience playing in a band or jamming with others but I'd think in a band situation if someone was playing Dom7 then play 9 or 13 & vice versa spice up the overall sound (or noise )
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[cowanrayl]

I tried it and adding that 5th to the 9th chord like that does give it a nice sound. Like the 5th string barre chord in a 7th.

To me, the 7th and the 9th both sound equally unresolved. If you just strum a D7 or a D9 chord, they sound like somthing should come next.
A m7 or m9 don't sound as unresolved to me. They don't sound as if they should lead to something else near as much as just the 7 or 9. But neither the m7 or m9 sound like a chord a song should finish on.
Maybe that's why to my ear they don't sound as interchangeable as the 7 and 9 do.

I don't think adding a 3rd or 5th to a chord in a higher octave is considered extending the chord like the 9th, 11th or 13th. I think it's just considered another voicing. If it were the case, then an open C chord would be called a C10 or maybe even something like a C8/10.
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[Deej]

Learn all the extensions if you'd like. You certainly don't have to, but they do add color to your playing. When you start jamming (make sure your first atttempts are with Blokes you don't know) throw the extensions in from time to time. When they stop playing and look at you like you just landed from another planet, don't play that one anymore in that situation. In a different situation they may look at you like you are the coolest, most original guy on the planet. Don't overthink it just play what sounds good. I've found that since I didn't spend my whole life playing guitar, theory helps me catch up with the guys who have no idea what note they are playing but know what it sounds like and what it goes with.